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  1. JP Fourie
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  3. Wednesday, July 18 2012, 11:14 PM
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Hi Richard, I would assume that the suggestion box is pointed at you, for others to comment.
Giovanni made a suggestion about a cheat sheet, and got some negative comment - i.e. no support. I would think that most of the people that look at this forum are near total or total incompetents like me, and would like to learn from what one supposes, are seniors, you know, people that know more and are capable and willing to share knowledge and experience (why else are they here?), to the extent where not only is a specific question answered, but answered well, in such a way that others with similar problems may find their way, in the dark, so to speak. True support is not often given on this site, and that is really a shame. There are some that do give good and proper answers, but mostly it is only half an answer - not really up to expectations. Giovanni's suggestion was a good suggestion! So why do the experienced fellows not do something about it - they do not want to supply support, is the apparent answer!
I myself, am desperately in need of such a workflow sheet, and everybody, even the long-time experienced guys will find advantage in such a sheet.
How about showing some statistics regarding the visitors that do visit this site. If some visits are short, or if some visitors seem to be fly-by-night visitors, statistics should be able to tell why. If support was of a certain standard, I am sure the visitor numbers would reflect that. You cannot just say that you, Richard, give this community what it wants, what actually should be is that this community gets what it needs - expert advice and leadership, that should build a memory of answers that would give satisfaction to anybody willing to do the necessary research.
If such a workflow sheet was available, many more Joomla sites would see the light, is that not logical?

The next thing that I would like to address, is the points system.
It just does not work!
I have supposedly reached the status of Expert Member(hah!)- this hopelessly incorrect! I assume that some of the other members' designations are equally incorrect. If you look at some of the answers that appear here in this forum, you cannot but agree, bearing in mind that one is always expected to give full details when asking a question, the completeness of answers are sometimes so wanting, blunt, uninformative and/or misleading, and not to the point, that it would have been better if it had not been answered. Most probably the reactions to my post, if there will be any, will demonstrate what I am trying to say.
I am a Junior Member! The seniority of a member should be measured by the quality of the answers and support that he actually gives!

Hacking has lately been discussed quite often - does this subject not merit a category classification of its own?
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OK. Me and my big mouth. Almost wo weeks have gone, and I am only now able to get a start to the list! But, due to experience, the purported list has taken a completely different look to what I thought it would look like, which just goes to show how little I know.
I have uploaded a site, communicatingwithaliens.com. (no pun intended). The subject was, out and out, a spur of the moment choice, not well thought out, and I do not have an idea where it may be heading to!
The site is very small at this stage - only one article, with no provision for any interaction by the visitor, and some major decisions need to be made, in the future some time.
But getting back to the list!
How did I do it? The experience really was too harrowing to give you a detailed report, but the lessons learnt are what I would like to share.
I finally used AkeebaBackup, and needed to ask for support, every step of the way, which was freely given by Mr Nicholas K. Dionysopoulos. Great man. Great product. I ended up subscribing to AkeebaBackup.com Professional Services, because of his friendly support. This not only addressed the problem of getting the site up, but also addresses the security of the site with regards to hacking. I believe that the site is as safe as it can be under present circumstances.
What made life difficult for me in the beginning was some negative reporting on AkeebaBackup on this forum, which I chose to accept, which was wrong. AkeebaBackup, to me, was not easy to use. It really was a nightmare to use, but this was only just because of my inexperience. I am convinced that by about the third site, I will be very fluent in using it, and I really intend getting there, soon!
The 'list' is provided in the documentation of the program. Perseverance is all you need!
It must be borne in mind that it takes a lot of time to make headway when you have as little experience as I do.

It takes time to decide what to do as a next step.
It takes time to realize that you have a problem.
It takes time to decide who is going to help you best.
It takes time to define the problem to whomever you feel will help you best.
It takes time for him to reply. He may not even provide an answer, but tell you that somebody else must be approached.

Once you realize that you must, because of the difficulties that can arise with all the different things that you need to attend to, allow for time, and adjust your approach, and expectations, to suit, it becomes easier. Not easy, just easier!

Well, try as I want, this is as helpful as I can be, at this stage of my own development. If, in future, I find an easier way to give, I will give.

Not easy!
Satisfying once you get there? Definitely!

JP;)
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  1. more than a month ago
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Thanks JP, I guess 13 years of managing a Customer Service/Software Support department did teach me a little about being tactful and constructive.
Although at first it was a hard lesson to learn.
Looking forward to seeing your docs.
Les
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Thank you for your solid reply Les. As a matter of fact I could not make up my mind whether it would be you or Tristan that would be the first to answer in reasonable temperament. This, the forum, IS a great place to be, for me, mostly because I am what my badge says - a bookworm. Sometimes I learn, and sometimes I don't. The information requested, most of the time, does not flow as it should. I think some of the guys might feel that they suffered to gain the experience that they have, and are not willing to lightly share it with others - this is understandable, but all of us should be more philanthropic with what we have, to the benefit of all in the group - it is after all a support group.
If support is withheld by someone who should reasonably be able to give it in two or three minutes, I start wondering about the integrity of the person involved, and I become disappointed. My life-long hobby has been the study of people - all people. What they do when what happens, what their reactions are or speculate what their reactions are going to be before they react, you know that sort of thing, so I feel that I know some of these people fairly well. I enjoy being part of the group, but every now and then their minds start to wander, and they do not come up with the right answers - and I think some deep questions have come up during the past few weeks, that need real answers to be real valuable lessons to most of us.
The difficulty in understanding a problem laid on the table by a newbie, say, is real, I know - his perceptions of what the problems are are wrong most of the time so therefore he is giving the wrong information in the first place - even different languages lead to incorrect understandings, and not much real solutions come out. I do not check every discussion or post, but it seems that some answers just make sure that the questioner does not come back. I think there is way to get past this sort of thing. I have been thinking about this for a few days, and did not know how to start this off, but I have decided that what I can do, is to write down the list of steps to be taken on Giovanni's WORKFLOW SHEET (I think cheat sheet stinks) from the PC up to the host, because I can do it and as a matter of fact have done it in three practice runs to two different sites and hosts. That is the easy part. Getting the bundle unzipped there, is where my problem starts. What do I do after that?, and then what? this now where I am stumped. Hopefully someone else will pick up and do the rest of the list. The more people put in something, the more complete will be the resulting list. Words like configuration.php and .htaccess really scare me half to death, because I don't know what they are or what the do and I can only bugger them up, and mabe burn the hosts building down - I don't know. What must I do there that Laurie did not do to prevent hacking? How do I find out about that? Just these thoughts start the armpits sweating, and I become terrified and wonder if it will not be better to go fishing instead.
But I will start the list and ask Giovanni to contribute what he can, and then request the senior to tear it apart and put it back together again for us as a reference document. Once we have it, we may even be able to give it to Joomla.org to add to their outdated stuff.
I will post the list tomorrow, if someone else has not done it. It is now 01h00 here and I should go to bed.
Thanks once again for your reply Les Much appreciated I assure you.:D
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  1. more than a month ago
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Hi JP, I can't answer for Richard but I will throw m 2 cents in. I am a long term programmer but only exposed to Joomla for about 9 months now. there are many Joomla forums available but I have to say I have gotten quite a bit of information on this site, including the tutorials. You mentioned the lack of direct type answers on the forum. I found this a little difficult to handle when I first started with Joomla. So many languages are rigidly designed and easy to explain because of the rules ingrained in the language. One thing I have found about Joomla is there are various rules and concepts based on what specific Extensions you use. Even extensions that do the same thing are often designed differently and follow different internal rules of design and operation.
This really lays it on the Questioner to provide as much detail as possible when they are seeking a specific answer as opposed to a concept. providing a link to the site often helps because we can use FireBug to actually see the code behind the page.
That being said, remember this is an open forum and people have different personalities. Some people are openly helpful and some have a varied sense of humor that could be taken as sarcastic. We never really know what level of experience the person has, when we are responding. I think after a bit of time you and others will find people you connect with and can communicate efficiently with.

Most everyone here does try to help people even though it may not seem that way at times. We all sometimes need a little shove to open our eyes and think through a problem before reaching out for help. I've found, even if I don't get a direct answer, I often get something that helps me think through the issue and come up with a solution.

Remember, we are all participating in this to help each other, we are not getting paid outside the self satisfaction of someone saying thank you.

This is one of my favorite and best organized Joomla sites.
Glad to see you joined us and even though you may not feel like an experienced level, you may be able to help someone that is going through something you went through just a short time ago.
Les
Les
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